Advice for Artists with Kids – Draftsmen S1E23

Advice for Artists with Kids – Draftsmen S1E23


Stan: Delegation. Deliberation. Station.
Marshall: Delegations. Liberations.Whoa. Stan: I probably got some shoe dust in there. Marshall: I don’t mind. Sean: It could add the bacteria. Stan: Some eco matter. Marshall: That’s right. Life is life is much prettier. Stan: Probably, I’ve walked in the bathroom
in these shoes. Marshall: Whoa. Different paradigm. Yeah, but you are raising a kid. You are used to body fluids and all of the
other animal functions of humanity. It’s just a part of life. Stan: Yeah. What a way to start an episode. Sean: You probably eat shit all the time. Stan: You probably drink poop on a daily basis. Marshall: We are going to talk about kids
today. Yeah. Stan: We are going to talk. This actually is a great way to start this
podcast. Poop and kids. Marshall: We are going talk about children,
yeah. Stan: If you are not interested in poop and
kids, you will not like this. Marshall: You will – if you have an aversion
to children, just tune it out now. Come in next week we don’t know we are going
to talk about but this is going to be about art and kids. Stan: I like how Sean was like, ‘Uh, maybe
we shouldn’t say that.” Keep listening. Sean: Cancel that part out. Marshall: Out of preparation for what might
happen later in your life. Stan: Yeah. Accidentally, maybe. Marshall: Well, it’s better if it’s planned,
I am told. Stan: It is better if it’s planned. Marshall: Yeah. Sean: It is easier now than ever before. Marshall: Want it, planned, prepared for it,
nursing instinct, not running away from the responsibility, all that stuff. Stan: Was your son planned? Marshall: Yeah. Stan: That wasn’t very confident. Marshall: Oh, well, it’s a long story. Stan: Yeah. If it is a long story, it doesn’t sound very
planned. Marshall: Definitely celebrated at this point. But all my work was done a long time ago. Stan: I like that answer. It wasn’t planned, it was celebrated. [laughter] Oh, that’s great. Marshall: Okay. Where do we go? Stan: Cooper was planned. Marshall: I kind of figured. Any other plans? Or is that a question not to ask on a podcast? Stan: Other plans. Marshall: Woo! You going to do the gender thing where you
try until you get the counter pointing gender so you can say we have experienced the whole
gamut. Stan: Yeah. Yeah. Like we both want a girl and we are going
to end up with five boys. Marshall: Yeah That’s correct, it happens. Stan: That’s what happens. Marshall: You don’t make these decisions yet. Speaker 1: Science can make it happen guys. Stan: It’s true. We could choose now. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: But it’s not a process that you want
to go towards. Marshall: I see, okay. Stan: It’s like do you really want a girl
that much? Or are you willing to risk a boy? Marshall: Yeah. And what is your attitude? Stan: I am not willing to pay all this money
and go through this unnatural process. Like I am fine if I end up with three boys. Marshall: There is another thing which is
if planning a gender or even planning a child gives the illusion of control. It is an illusion that will be shattered because
no matter what the situation, children are unpredictable. There is no way. It is the biggest embracing of uncertainty
that I can imagine in life. Stan: Yeah. What are you talking about? Are you talking about like you get your girl
but then she turns into a boy? Marshall: No. But I mean that bringing a child – Sean: It’s like Jurassic Park. Stan: What? Sean: It’s like Jurassic Park. Stan: What happened in Jurassic Park? Sean: Yeah, life finds a way. Stan: Oh, life finds a way. Marshall: I didn’t get it. Sean: All the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park are
female and then they find out somehow that they changed their gender because a certain
frog DNA is put in them. Marshall: I have seen it a few times but I
guess I never caught that. Stan: Okay, Marshall. Sean: Let’s roll the intro. Marshall: Hi, Stan? Stan: Yeah, I wanna roll the intro. Hi, I am Stan. I teach art on Proko. Marshall… Marshall: I am Marshall. And I co-host the podcast with Stan Prokopenko. Stan: There you go. Roll the intro for the Draftsmen Show. [intro music] Marshall: The
subject today is kids. Stan: Yes. Marshall: Sort of. Stan: Whoa. What – what about kids? Marshall: We had a question post to us. Stan: Oh, yeah. Okay, you want me to read it? Marshall: Why don’t you read that one and
I’ll read the one that was post today? Stan: Oh, what? There is two questions? Marshall: Yeah. There were two questions on this. What was yours? Stan: From Firefly4675, 0 minutes ago. [chuckle] It is what it says in my document. Anyone have tips for parents of small children? I am about to be a mom and I am trying to
figure out how to fit art in there. And then, there is an emoji with a eye drop
or a water drop going down onto one eye. Marshall: It’s like sweating. Stan: Sweating. Not crying but sweating. It’s like on the forehead. Marshall: Yeah. Like it is so hard to get all this done. I am worn out. Stan: But she is smiling open-mouthed. Marshall: Okay. Still sweating but glad. Stan: Yeah. It’s like “Oh, gosh.” Marshall: Very analogous to the whole process. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: Okay. Stan: So, we figured out like a few minutes
ago that I misinterpreted this question. Marshall: How did you interpret it? Stan: I thought she was saying that, “I am
going to be a mom, how do I fit art into my child’s life?” Marshall: And that’s not what she is asking? Stan: I don’t know maybe she is. She said, “I am about to be a mom. I am trying to figure out how to fit art in
there.” Marshall: In there. Stan: Where is there? In there, in the child. Marshall: I think that – she is not a mom
yet, my guess is that she is talking about fitting art into her life. Stan: Okay. Probably. I agree. You are probably right, that is what she is
saying. Marshall: But you want to deal with the first
one first. The misinterpretation first about how you
fit art into a child’s life or should we save that for the end? Stan: Sure. Okay, sure. My thing is give them the tools, give them
the options, to explore. They’ll cling on to something and then you
keep providing them with what they need to excel. Marshall: Mm-hmm. That sounds good. Stan: But we don’t choose for them. Marshall: It’s non-intrusive. You just give them the option and they can
choose it if they want it. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: Boy, that’s good. Stan: Is that it? Are we done with that one? Marshall: I guess we are done with that one. Stan: Let’s move on to the real question now. Marshall: What is that? Oh, okay, that one – Stan: How do you fit art into your life when
you are about to have kids or already maybe have kids? Marshall: Let’s take someone who apparently
already has kids. Their name is on there, Courtney Contreras. “Where are all the artists with kids? How do artists who are also mothers and fathers
still make it? I draw and paint, but is it over for me? I know zero famous artists with children”. Ohhh! Stan: Famous artists with children. Marshall: We could list famous artists with
children. Sean: Both of the Draftsmen apparently
have children. Stan: We both have children. Marshall: Or a child, yeah. Stan: A child. Well, I have two dogs. [laughter] Marshall: Okay, that is right. That is right. Stan: Sorry, I had to go there. Marshall: Pets are a very toned -it’s the
same thing but way lower degree. Stan: It is like 1%. I agree. But you know, I think of them as my kids. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Melissa and I call them “the kids”. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: And we call Cooper, ‘Cooper’. Sean: He is a good dog. Marshall: He is got the special human being
kid. Stan: It’s like, “Are you going to drop off
the kids?” We mean the dogs. Marshall: The dog, yeah. Stan: We don’t mean Cooper. Marshall: Right. Well, would it do any good to – I don’t know
whether it would do any good to list famous artists with kids. But the first one that comes to my mind was
N.C. Wyeth since he was so patriarchal. His wife fell into the shadows very much. His kids talked about him as such a dominating
force in the family. He was the father of five kids, one of whom
was Andrew Wyeth. There is a wonderful documentary that is quite
touching as well called N.C. Wyeth, A Father and His Family from the late
80s I am guessing. Really worth your time. Uh, but, and it is not an idealized portrait
even though there is a sense of romance to it but there is also the awareness of some
of the difficulties. That his grandson Jamie Wyeth also. So, that is one of the most famous – Stan: Rockwell. Marshall: Pardon? Stan: Rockwell. But he was known to be a bad father. I don’t want to throw rumours. Marshall: At least one of his sons was quite
bitter about his absence from the family. Stan: Jeff Watts’ father Robert Watts, they
are both artists. Marshall: Okay. Stan: Robert Watts is a great artist. Marshall: So, there are famous artists. Stan: Let’s mentioned some moms. Marshall: Okay. Let’s mention some moms. The ones that I am thinking of, Remedios Varo
is one of my favorites. She never had kids. Beatrix Potter never had kids. Stan: Angelina Jolie. Marshall: Does she have kids? Sean: Adopted like ten kids.
Stan: Adopted like ten kids. Marshall: Okay. Stan: Yeah. We don’t even have to think of artists. Why does it have to be an artist? It could be anyone that is busy with their
career and also as a parent. There is no difference. The only problem that really they are asking
is, how do I find time to do this other thing, right? Marshall: Yes. Stan: It’s the problem. It doesn’t matter what else you are doing. It’s just the time factor. So, we could think Marshall: It’s not just a time factor. Stan: Oh, what else is it? Marshall: It’s an energy factor, right? It’s maybe related to time. Stan: Sure. Okay, energy. But all those other things in your career
would still require energy. Marshall: Yes. Stan: One problem here is, we might be listing
artists that were famous and then they had kids. Or they had their career already like pretty
much set up to get famous and then they had kids. It wasn’t like they had kids but they are
still like really early on and like they are still a student or something. Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me tell you an interesting historical
irony. You look at the greatest children’s book writers,
children’s book illustrators, and children’s book writers and illustrators. Let’s start with Lewis Carroll, he never had
kids. Beatrix Potter never had kids. Dr. Seuss, never had kids. Maurice Sendak never had kids. Shel Silverstein almost never had kids. But a number of the children’s book writers
and illustrators who did have kids had them after they had had their success because people
who don’t understand children’s book writing and illustration, especially the ones who
do it so great, do not understand that it is a lifestyle. And there are I think two reasons. One that I was always aware of before I had
kids and afterwards is that people don’t know how demanding producing good children’s entertainment
is. And so they underestimate the time and they
figure, “Well, I got kids. I can write and entertain them.” But there is another thing that a friend of
mine pointed out. He and his wife didn’t have children. And he said, “There’s another thing and that
is, as soon as you become a parent, you are in the role of police person. You are in the role of having to maintain
order which means that you are in a role that does not play well as the fellow child.” And you look at the subversive quality of
people like Shel Silverstein and Dr. Seuss who there is an energy right from the beginning
of ‘its you and I against the grown-ups’. Even if it is not specific. There is a sense of “I am on your level”. And as soon as you become on the level up
here looking down on the child, there is something different. It is like a children’s book illustrators
who will not consider where the point of view of the camera is whereas many of them now
put it down there where you are looking up under the table and you are looking up into
grown-ups noses. It’s an empathy with your audience that married
couples or people in general can play the role of us. Stan: That’s interesting. That kind of also applies to running a business. Marshall: How? Stan: Well, you are kind of policing. Right? Marshall: Mm-hmm. Stan: I mean not like as much as with a kid
but you have to make sure everything is going well and like everyone is doing what they
should be doing. Marshall: And it becomes a kind of energy. Stan: It is this kind of energy. Marshall: That defines you. That you have to consciously be able to break
out of. And many a parent, particularly a parent who
has to play the harder role, the disciplinarian, the police person, they may be able to be
the entertainer but I think it’s a different bearing toward a child’s – Stan: Yeah. So, I mean, there is a lot of different options
here and it depends on what you want and what you have available to you. Like some parents are able to – both have
full-time jobs and have someone watch the child during the day. Whether it’s a grandparent, a sibling of theirs,
you know, family. The child can be with other family members
but it depends on your family dynamic. It depends on if you can afford a nanny. If you are comfortable with a nanny. It depends on all these things. If you are not then, yeah, you are going to
be spending the most energetic prime time of your day for 12 hours probably, maybe even
more. No, it’s probably like 12 hours watching this
child. And when they are sleeping, you are taking
a break because you are exhausted. Marshall: You are recovering. Stan: Yeah, you are recovering. And you cannot go and like paint. But I mean, also like you probably have a
spouse. Being a single parent is like another top
level. Marshall: Of difficulty. Yeah. Stan: Very much have – yeah. probably no hope of having a career outside
of that. Right? Am I – should I say that? Marshall: It’s so hard to. Stan: I can’t imagine being a single parent
and also trying to do something else. I can’t see how that’s possible. Marshall: Trying to be encouraging and be
realistic. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: I remember I had a really difficult
transition into fatherhood. And Bob Duncan who – he and his wife had been
successful writers for many years when my son was only a year or two old. I remember him having dinner with me and we
stayed up late into the night. And he said, “Tell me how it’s going. Tell me how it’s going with fatherhood and
your career.” And I said, “It’s rough.” And nobody asked me those things. So, for Bob to open up that subject meant
that he understood that you have got a conflict of energy. And he said, I said “It’s rough.” And I told him how it was working and how
it was a challenge. And I asked him about it and he said, “Well,
I know that I was not as good a father as I could have been if I had not been trying
to be a writer. And I know that I was not as good a writer
as I would have been if I had not tried to be a father.” And so, there was no pretending otherwise. But I heard this over and over from people,
that you will compromise your career unless your career is already established. So, it would be unrealistic to say, “it’s
going to be all okay and you are going to have a career and your kids are going to turn
out fine”. I don’t know how to address this except to
say that there is the challenge. I don’t really have an answer for this. I am going to stab around it. Stan: Yeah. It is a reality that you are going to have
way less time either way. But it can work kind of… Yeah.You are right. I don’t know. I don’t know how to say it. Marshall: Glenn Vilppu, in the 1990s, Glenn
Vilppu had an instructional VHS in which he was talking about, he was copying from some
Renaissance drawing of a child, and he was talking about the proportions of a child. And he said something to the effect that,
if you don’t know what the proportions of a child are is have a child. Have a few children. Stan: [chuckle] To learn proportion. Marshall: In that way you will watch them
grow and you will notice how the head and the body change. And I remember watching this with students
and everybody looking at each other. And somebody, it might have been me said,
“Don’t. Do not have a child out of the motivation
that I want to learn the proportions of a child as it grows. You will never get any drawing done anyway
because you are going to be busy dealing with this kid.” Stan: Good advice. Most artists that I know that are really,
really, really serious about their career and that is like their life is their art career,
most of them decide not to have kids. And the ones I am thinking about actually
the husband and wife are both artists. Marshall: Mm-hmm. And they’ve decided not to have children. Stan: They have decided not to have children. It’s like, if they are both artists, probably
one of them is going to suffer more than the other. Not suffer. I mean, their career is going to severely
slow down more than the other. It’s not going to be an equal thing because
one of them will have to be making the money to support the family. And so, whoever is further along in their
career will probably be the one who gets to keep going with their career. The other one gets to stay home with the child. And their’s is just going to pretty much stall. Marshall: Did you say gets to stay home with
the child? Stan: Yeah. Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. Good. Stan: Gets to stay home. Marshall: Yeah. I am glad. I am glad you would done that. Sean: Instead of saying “has to stay
at home”. Stan: Wait, did I say that? Marshall: I think you did. I think you said, “Gets to stay home with
the child.” Stan: Said that accidently. That wasn’t – Marshall: The one who gets to stay home with
the child has the harder job, I think. Stan: Yes. Because it is not selfish. It’s more difficult to do everything for someone
else rather than do everything for yourself. Marshall: And as one psychologist said when
you are out in the workplace, as difficult as it is, you do not usually have to use force
as often as you have to use force in a family when you’ve got the children. And using force can be exhausting. Stan: What do you mean by force? Marshall: Using force; you force your will
on this even though the child doesn’t want it. There is going to be trials that a person
not doing it cannot imagine until they have done it. And then they don’t need to imagine it. And then when it’s over, they choose never
to think about that again and just remember all of the good parts. But the person who stays home with the child
has the harder job. But they also have a reward and they’re getting
to report the good things too. Stan: It’s true. Marshall: But what are we offering to a person
who is asking this question? Stan: I am not sure. Maybe just the person listening is enjoying
hearing it from us. [chuckle] I hope so. Marshall: Somebody else understands. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: Small comfort. Stan: Yeah. We can’t promise them that it’ll be okay. Marshall: No. Stan: I know that if you really want it really,
really bad, that if your drawing career is more important than the child you are about
to have, you’ll figure it out. Whether it hurt your child or not, you’ll
figure it out. Hopefully, you can figure out in a way that
it doesn’t hurt your child. That there could be someone to watch the child
who is a good role model while you are focusing on this and then you come and you spend, you
know, five hours a day with that child. It’s like these are options but it depends
on the individual how comfortable they are with exploring those options. Marshall: Well, since we’ve been asked about
it, let’s just list some of these options. You just mentioned some of them. Stan: A nanny or a family member. Marshall: Let’s start with the with the worst
possible one though to get that out of the way. Stan: Adoption? Is that it? Marshall: No. No. No. The worst possible resolve. Stan: What’s that? What’s worse than that? Marshall: We’ll start with the two that we know. Stan: Don’t go there. Marshall: Here’s the first one. One is to neglect the child because the career
is more important. Stan: Oh, I guess adoption is better than
neglection, huh? Just being a horrible parent just like ignoring,
that is worse than giving them up. Marshall: But some people choose that. I think, didn’t Steve Jobs make a statement
that he wanted his children to know that the reason he wasn’t there is because he was doing
this big thing to change the world? Stan: Okay. Marshall: I had heard something like that. I can’t verify. Stan: Okay. Marshall: And again Norman Rockwell comes
to mind. Norman Rockwell would not have been Norman
Rockwell and he would not have his stature in illustration history if he had put that
energy into being a parent. So, there is one thing which is to turn the
child over to others or neglect the child so that you can pursue the career. It’s an option. It’s hardly a good option but it depends on
your values. There is another one and that is to live vicariously
through the child. I couldn’t be a football player but I am going
to raise kids who can be football players and I’ll make them be football players. It’s like my kids are going to go into ballet
and they are going to be ballet dancers. And you push them into something, reward them
for doing it, withhold rewards for not doing it, and manipulate the child into living out
the thing that you couldn’t do yourself is another way that a great deal of pain happens
in young people’s lives. I have seen it in my students more times that
I have kept track of. And sometimes they become artists because
the parent wanted them so badly to be a doctor or an athlete or whatever other thing. Stan: Lawyer. Marshall: Yeah. So there’s a second negative way. Let’s get the negative ways out of the way. Is there any other that occurs to you? Stan: Murder. Marshall: I wouldn’t take it that far although
it can happen. Stan: You just wanted to get the negatives
out of the way. Marshall: You can give the extremes. Stan: These aren’t funny. These are the negatives. Sean: This thing is pure comedy. Stan: Sean, you’re not a father, you don’t
understand. Sean: Hey, I own a lizard. Stan: You own a lizard? What else is there? Neglect, Adoption… Marshall: I remember. Stan: We are getting into like, we shouldn’t
be giving this advice. Marshall: I think it was M Scott Peck who
talked about how a child who is rejected by their parents has a better chance than the
child who is constantly affirmed by their parents saying, “We support you and we love
you.”, but they don’t really. And the child senses the disconnect between
the reality which they have no words for only feelings. And all they can say is that my stomach hurts
a lot or whatever else. And the specific and explicit message that
the parents give to say ‘we love you and we support you’ and it drives the child crazy
because they cannot make sense out of reality in their in their blossoming consciousness. Stan: Interesting. Marshall: So, it would be better to reject
the child and the child says, “No, it’s my parents reject me it’s going to be painful”. It is painful. But they can then seek other support that
gets them in touch with reality so that they know what they are battling. So, not to say that adoption is a good option
but it’s actually it might be the lesser of two evils. We gradually move into something – I may have
something to offer. Stan: What’s that? Marshall: I’ve got a few things to offer just
from being on this side of it. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: One is that, I loved children’s
books through my childhood and even into my adulthood. And I remember, I would go into the bookstore
and the library and check out children’s books in my 20s. And they would say, “How old is your kid?” And I would say, “I don’t have a kid.” And the look that I would get. Stan: Like what are you doing here you pervert? Marshall: Yeah. There was that sense but I loved children’s
books and still do. And then when I’ve got a kid, now you are
given permission to buy and collect. And not only that, but from the time before
he even understood words, I would sit him on my lap and read and we’d look at the page
and then I learned I can read upside down for some reason. I don’t know why. I just thought everybody could read upside
down. I got the idea before he was two years old
to put him this way, hold the book upside down, read it to him. That way I got both the book and I got his
face to watch the response to this. And I spent hundreds of hours throughout my
son’s childhood reading books all the way into where he was he was older. He’d let me read to him. And it was a great investment like – Stan: So what’s your advice? Marshall: You’re right, because I can go on
for 20 minutes. Stan: Because you said “I do have some advice”. Marshall: The things that you would do with
a child that the child will enjoy and that you will enjoy, this is your opportunity to
indulge him/her. By the time your kids are in their teens,
they may not want you to read to them anymore. And I found that when he left the house, I
am just aching for someone to read books to. So, I do it to classrooms, they are captivated. Stan: So, learn to love it. Learn to enjoy being a parent. Marshall: The things that you aren’t going
to be able to do later, yes. That’s one thing. Stan: Cool. Yeah. What’s the other one? Marshall: The other is to play art related
games. But let’s set that one aside because I got
another – Stan: That one sounded fun. Marshall: Yeah. Sean: You can get back to it. Marshall: Are you reading to Cooper or is
anyone in your family? Stan: Yeah. He reads now. [laughter] Marshall: Favorite story? Sean: Yeah, we gave him last
week. Stan: Yeah, you’re right. We do yeah, of course. Yeah. He has a two bookshelf that we put on his
wall and he’ll pick a book. Marshall: Good ones? Stan: Yeah. And then he’ll throw them around or use them
as – Good ones. Marshall: You have Good Night Moon? Stan: We don’t have Good Night Moon. Marshall: Oh, yeah. Stan: It’s a classic. Stan: We started with the Jimmy Fallon ones. Marshall: Those are happening? Stan: Mama and Dada. Marshall: Okay. Stan: We have the The Worst Alphabet Book
and The Best Alphabet Book. Those are funny.
Marshall: Are they called that? Stan: Yeah. We have a lot Why are you asking? Marshall: Anyway, just to sum up the books
thing, I got the privilege of a few hundred hours of indulging children’s books and it
was not neglecting fatherhood. It was a bonding that is really a sweet memory
to me. Stan: I think that advice just helps you to
enjoy it a little bit more is when you can have a common interest but it really doesn’t
help you in your career though. Marshall: Well, I don’t know about that because
I’ve gotten – Stan: Well, let me tell you then if you don’t
know. Marshall: I am going to tell you I am casting
doubt on your speculation. Stan: Ah, that’s what you meant by that. Marshall: That children’s book illustration
certificate that we’re doing at the junior college and the children’s book classes that
I’ve taught, I had a long, you know, my graduate study was real world stuff that lets me know
my way around the last – Stan: It helps you as much as playing video
games can help you. Marshall: It’s a video game desire. It’s like “well it exposed me to video games
and so now I can make better video games”. It’s like well, yeah, to a degree. Marshall: But do you doubt that? Stan: No, I don’t. But it’s like it’s such a tiny amount of building
a career. It’s like, oh, yeah, I read children’s books. Marshall: It is a tiny amount but we are grasping
at straws here. Stan: I know. I get it. But it mostly helps you just to enjoy the
time more. Marshall: Okay. Stan: It doesn’t help you that much in actually
getting – she’s asking me like, how do I become a famous artist? It’s like, well, read books to your kid. No. Marshall: If I give you a thing about games,
the next thing is going to be “okay, well that’s another straw Marshall”. Stan: Okay. Marshall: Should we do it? Stan: I get it. I probably know what you’re about to say. Okay, play art games so that you can enjoy
doing art stuff while you are with your kids. Marshall: Wait, before the games thing, let
me mention another thing that happened in my life but it’s going to be all me reminiscing. We moved to a new area and found that there
was a husband and wife who were artists. They made their living as artists. They were both fine artists. And they sold anything they could to anyone. And they had a house, big house, with lots
of production space and jewelry and everything. It was like the Adams family house in a lot
of ways. Everything was in there. Animals and spiders and bison skulls and everything. And they had a number of kids. And one of the boys was a year older than
my son. One of the boys was a year younger. And they became a team that were creative. They hung around all the time. They designed video games. They did tons of artwork. Got lots of stories about that. But, Ken Matson and I drove to classes together. He used to drive me to my classes. We were learning together. And then he had ideas for art games. One of them was to get together with the boys
and here’s what we do, we have a grab bag of pieces of paper, an adjective, a noun,
a verb and then some direct object like an event. Stan: Okay. Marshall: And so you would have something
like, you’d pull them out of a hat and combine him and then everybody draws their own version. A tough bunny watches a boxing match. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: And then we would each draw it and
then we’d put it out there. And it was great social time. Stan: That one’s more related because that
one you actually get to practice drawing. Marshall: That’s right. And I adjusted that time. I’ve been teaching Animal Anatomy for [Inaudible]. I was learning how to draw rabbits and get
their anatomy right. So, I got to do my tough bunny watching. Stan: It might help you be more creative too. Marshall: That’s right. And also one of those, the younger son, was
really talented. I mean I am sorry to use the term but he came
up with ideas for monsters all the time. In fact, I took some of his little sketches
of monsters. Stan: You copied into your own? Marshall: And I turned them into gave them
some draftsmanship. Stan: You took his ideas as yours. Marshall: Yeah. But he also he decided to become an artist. And so, there – being around children in their
artistic creative state can be invigorating. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: And you learn a ton. Even though it’s dirty learning. It’s not organized like a teacher. Stan: Right. Marshall: But it is learning in a chaotic
way about how creativity happens. I learned a number of the most important lessons
in creativity not from reading all of those creativity books but from watching five, six,
seven, and eight-year-olds work at their projects and seeing what they naturally do and how
they adjust. And that becomes a part of my teaching is
that this is an icon of innocence that knows instinctively how to go about it that grown-ups
have to relearn. So, again, I know we are grasping at things
that can be encouraging, but sharing of their media, introducing them to old stuff that’s
great that they are too young to know that it isn’t cool. That I only want to know what the culture
knows and you saying, “look, we’ve got these things that all – Little Nemo in Slumberland”. My son and I spent three years reading through
those things. And I remember when he was about seven years
old, I shot some slides. I said, “Hey, I’ve got a slide presentation.” And we would always read them in books, of
Little Nemo in Slumberland, would you like to watch them? We turned off all the lights. We projected them up on the wall. And afterward he said, “There’s just nothing
like Little Nemo.” And I thought there really isn’t. They are so gorgeous. He was too young to know that that was not
happening in the mainstream culture. Stan: Interesting. Marshall: And we didn’t have television either
all through his childhood. So there was that an advantage too. Stan: How long does that stage last where
your whole day is dedicated to the child? Like till they are like five or six, right? When they go to school and they are gone from
8 or 7 a.m. till 2 or 3. Right? And then you have that whole time to work
on your own stuff, right? Marshall: Yeah. Stan: 5 or 6 so. It’s not too bad. It’s like a pause for five years. Marshall: If you could see it that way, yeah. Stan: Kind of. I am trying to be positive. Marshall: I know. It’s like a pause where you are running yourself
ragged. Stan: Yeah. And I get it. But I mean, it’s not like a full pause. Those five years, you can trade off with,
you know, your husband or your wife does half the day you do half. You know, you can make it work. Marshall: Well, now you are bringing up the
next thing that may be the most important of all. That the community of people around you is
the biggest factor. And the extended family of having grandma
and grandpa on either side and all sorts of others. Because it takes six human beings to raise
one child because of the amount of energy. And so, just historically, naturally there
was a whole village of people who were helping with the children. And it isn’t that way now. So, that can sometimes be the biggest challenge. Also if you got grandparents and you say “I
don’t want my grandparents to be a part of this process”. Stan: Why not? Marshall: Because they are bad influences. Because they are going to carry through the
same dysfunctions they gave to you. They are going to do it to your kids. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: So, there’s all sorts of complex
challenges that everybody’s situation is different. Stan: Yeah, it depends. Hopefully, you have family that can help. Marshall: Hopefully. Sean: I have heard authors talk about
when they had kids – before, you know, they were not famous they had kids. And they get like two to three hours of like
work time in a day because the rest was taking care of kids. And that became their most productive time
ever because it was so limited that they were able to like do a bunch of work in like two
hours versus – Stan: But how? How? Because – Sean: Staying up late and how to use
it it’s just like having a partner. Stan: You have to figure out how to regain
that energy after an exhausting day. Sean: Yeah. Or if part of your creative output is not
– Stan: Or wake up really early. Sean: Yeah. Wake up early. Stan: Do it before you are super tired. Yeah, okay. If you are really motivated I guess you would
do that. Marshall: I am seeking some kind of closure
to offer a person who is asking this. Stan: Okay. Marshall: Here’s the best that I can offer,
is that now we’ve got the options. One option is to back off on the career and
to spend a little time on this to keep your hand in. To keep in shape you don’t have to be a pro
tennis player but you can play tennis two or three times a week so that you are keeping
in shape with it. And pick it up later, because as we talked
about a couple episodes ago that going at it with a renewed vigor after you are done
with the kids does happen. There can be the second wave where you are
able to do it. And then what Sean just mentioned is that,
what if you can get six hours a week, two hours a day here three times a week and make
it so that that time is sacred, precious time for you. It’s absolutely mommy time and mommy wants
to do this and mommy will do this and that will not be encroached on. And make it so that you are working as smart
as opposed to hard as possible to have it accumulate so that by accretion, you are going
to have those six or seven years you would never have gotten that if you had not said
at least I’ve got my six hours a week regularly. Ad: This episode is brought to you by the
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to draw the human figure, and don’t want your drawings to look like this go to proko.com/figure. I have packed it with lessons and laughs so
you can have fun while learning serious drawing skills. Okay, back to the podcast. Stan: Good closure. Voicemail? Marshall: Voicemail. Voicemail 1: Hey, guys. My name’s Andrew. First off, I wanted to say love the show. But my question is, what are your thoughts
on practice? Is there good practice, bad practice or is
all practice just good for growing as an artist? Marshall: There is good practice and there
is bad practice and not all practice is good for growing as an artist. Stan: Yeah. Anything to add? Marshall: Yeah, I mean, that’s – Sean: Maybe elaborate. What is bad practice? Stan: Bad practice? Throwing your pencil at your paper and you
just keep doing that, it’s bad practice. Marshall: I practiced that for hundreds of
hours. Stan: That’s why you suck. Marshall: It was not good practice. Stan: It was not good practice. Marshall: It was to try to solve a problem
and it ended up becoming up becoming a problem. Stan: Yeah. Okay. So, what’s better practice? What’s slightly worse practice? Marshall: We have talked about it before. Stan: Yeah, we have. Deliberate practice is the best practice. Marshall: And prescriptive deliberate practice. Stan: What’s the difference? Marshall: The difference is that it’s not
just deliberate practice, it’s that I need practice on this thing as opposed to another
thing. Stan: Yes. So you are deliberately choosing. Marshall: Oh, deliberately choosing, yeah. Prescriptive means that it is solving a problem. Stan: Yeah. Yeah. What I mean by deliberate practice is you
are not just like taking out a sketchbook and doodling without having a reason. Right? It’s like people think practicing just means
drawing. It’s like I drew. But were you practicing? Or were you just doodling or sketching or
whatever? Marshall: This isn’t that helpful to answer
that. Andrew did you really think – Stan: Wow! Marshall: What we are offering is something
we’ve already dealt with. Stan: Yeah, we’ve talked about it. Marshall: Andrew did you really think that
there is no such thing as bad practice versus good practice? Sean: I think no such thing as bad practice
is a thing that circulates on the Internet. Stan: Oh, the idea that no such thing is bad
practice. Sean: And so there’s a bad concept circulates
and everyone is like, “Oh, any practice is a good practice.” Marshall: Oh, I don’t agree with that at all. That is definitely a bad practice. Stan: I don’t agree with that either. Sean: So, maybe elaborate on that. Like what would you consider bad practice? Stan: The way I just said. Sean: But not like throwing a pencil. Stan: No. The other thing that I just said where you
just go into it not having – Speaker 1: A goal. Stan: A goal. You just think that just sketching something
is going to be practice. You have to analyze yourself. Figure out what your weaknesses are. Which ones do you want to improve. You don’t have to improve all your weaknesses. Some might not matter. But if you think that one of your weaknesses
really matters and you need to improve it, deliberately choose to practice that rather
than just sketching stuff. Marshall: Yeah. I quote Dr. Eddie O’Connor again, “Practice
does not make perfect, practice makes permanent.” You keep practicing something bad and you’ve
got a new habit that could take you years to overcome. Stan: Yeah. Practicing something incorrectly. You are backtracking. Right? Like if you are constantly practicing sloppy
line work, it’s going to take you much longer to get good line quality than if you’re starting
from scratch. Marshall: Okay. Stan: Because first you have to undo all the
the bad habits then you have to work on the good habits. Marshall: Yes. Should we do another voicemail? This was – I don’t really think we offered
anything new. Stan: You just love voicemails. Voicemail 2: Hello? My question is quite simple I think. It is, how can I deal with being influenced
by multiple art styles? I love realistic art but I was a lot more
stylist art and I don’t know which one to pursue. It’s got me to a point where I find myself
unable to create any original work since I don’t know what I want to do. Thanks Proko for answering. Marshall: This is decision anxiety. That how can you answer this? Do the realistic stuff. Do the graphic stuff. It’s just your responsibility. Stan: I think we offered less on this one
than on the previously one. Marshall: We did. But how could you answer this question? Stan: I don’t know. Yeah. Just like grow up dude, you are going to make
a decision. Marshall: It wouldn’t be that. But it’s an anxiety issue for him that I don’t
know what to do but that’s part of the responsibility of choosing. Everyone’s responsible to choose for those
things that they can choose. Stan: Yeah. It’s almost like he thinks there’s a right
answer though. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Like if I pick this one it’s wrong,
I must go with this one. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Who’s going to tell you what the right
answer is? You just have to look deep down and decide
what you want more. Or just combine them, come up with a new thing. A realistic style. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Yeah. I don’t know. Marshall: Well, that is a good answer. I don’t know whether it’s going to solve it
for him because I sense the fear of buyers regret. I sense that if I choose this one I got to
give up that. Oh, okay then I’ll choose the other one. No, but if you choose that one I am going
to give that up. And when a person does not know what they
want, I don’t know what to say, but hopefully, you will want something enough to say I am
going to make a choice. And the creativity of combining two things
to make a new thing is part of the fun of many of an artist to say “I have got the realistic
thing, I have got the graphic thing”. Andrew Wyeth talked about that. That he felt like he did not want the subject
matter to be the only important thing in his realistic paintings. He wanted the abstract design to be important
too. And he said, “I don’t want one to overtake
the other. I try for a balance.” And he also said that that was exciting to
him. So that he’s approaching this stylistic conflict
as a creative challenge and how can I rise to the occasion and see how to work it out. But it will take work. It will take experimenting with it. How do I choose this element and that element? Do something, doesn’t quite work but I think
I can do a better next time. So, this is – a lot of the questions that
we get are questions for therapists and people that are close to the person that there is
just no way that we can give an answer that is going to be satisfactory. Do we try a third one? Stan: I got a third one lined up. Stan: Alright, let’s do a third one. Voicemail 3: Hi, Stan and Marshall? This is Emily. I called you guys before but my phone died
in the middle of the voicemail. But I wanted to know, I saw on Stan’s book
recommendation list that you had Robert Henri. That’s how you say his name, right? The Art Spirit recommended. And in that book I was reading it he talks
about painting from life and not worrying about learning how to draw before you paint. You might have covered this in the fundamentals
podcast but I wanted to hear your thoughts on that and the pros and cons for someone
like me who is a self-taught artist taking that approach. Thanks. Stan: My experience with artists that paint
but don’t draw is that they are usually worse. Their skill level is usually worse. Because you can learn so much about – I think
you can learn quicker through drawing than through painting certain things. Not color. But just like, it’s faster, it’s cheaper,
it’s it’s much better for students. A pencil and a paper versus expensive oil
paint. I don’t know. This is just my experience. I know that again it’s like it depends. Like I am sure there is people out there that
don’t really draw but they are amazing painters because they just spent all our time focusing
on this medium and not splitting their time between mediums. I am sure that’s possible. But just my experience is the people that
learn how to draw first adapted to painting extremely quickly and passed up all the people
that didn’t draw and have just been painting for a few years. But that’s my experience. Marshall: That makes sense to me that drawing
is the foundation of painting. Many a teacher has said it. Many an artist has said it. Stan: Yeah. Yeah, like a perspective. It’s going to be so much harder to learn perspective
through painting. Right? Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. One follows the other naturally. Stan: Yeah. Marshall: But I would not exclude the possibility
of arranging values in your training at the beginning and then gradually seeing I need
to know how a cross contour affects that light, that core shadow. But I would wonder why would you be inclined
to do one before the other. And if you are really inclined to deal with
value in color before you deal with drawing or at the expense of dealing with drawing,
it may be that you have got a vision for what you are going to do. You think of Monet’s work, you think of Seurat’s
work, these are so totally impressionisticly, pointillisticly influenced by the shimmer,
the impression of what hits your eyes that they hardly need classic draftsmanship. And you think of an expressivist like Van
Gogh, let alone the literal expressionists of the early 20th century, Van Gogh was before
them, that is not concerned with classic drawings, he’s concerned with emotional oomph into the
brushstrokes and the choices of the values and colors. It can be done but I think asking this to
us on a podcast called Draftsmen – Stan: That’s funny. Marshall: Is to ask it of people who are very
biased towards the traditional approach. Stan: Probably. Yeah. But you said something interesting. You said if you want to separate – you grouped
value in color with painting and you separated it out of drawing. I connect value with drawing quite a bit. Marshall: Yes. It makes sense. Value and drawing certainly overlap. I know. Stan: Yeah. Because I would say learn shading and form
with drawing first and then apply it to painting. But I think when people hear that and their
ultimate goal is to be painters, they think, “oh, I am going to have to not paint for several
years and just draw”. And that’s not true. I never not painted. Marshall: It’s not an either-or. Stan: I started painting when I was 13. I mean, I probably had a few years in my teens
and that I didn’t paint. But like once I got serious I was painting
all the time. It’s just that I was spending probably more
than half of my time drawing. And I still had fun and painted and when,
you know, plein air painting and did portraits and stuff. I was still enjoying the medium that I love. Because that is important just being comfortable
with the feeling of the oil paint and holding a brush because it is a little bit different. And keeping that mileage and that control
of a brush throughout the years is important even if it’s just a little bit. Few hours a week or something. It’s enough to not have to start learning
the medium from scratch later. Yeah. Don’t think that saying that you have to learn
how to draw first means you can’t paint. Marshall: Yeah. And I remember seeing an artist in L.A. who
worked tonally right from the beginning. He would arrange masses of oil paint then
he’d use a fan brush to blend it. And then he’d gradually blend and blend and
blend and blend and do these beautiful portraits. So, it’s clearly value in a fog that gradually
crispings. And he had a good eye. But it isn’t the way – it’s certainly not
the way a 3D program works. It can’t render. It can’t give you light and dark until it
has a scaffolding of something to put the light and dark on. And so that to me is the my biased way of
how I think a student should learn. Don’t want to be dogmatic about it. Stan: I don’t think I understand. Marshall: Where did I lose you? Stan: At the beginning. A computer program. You think that a student should learn how
a computer program does it? Marshall: No. No. The way a computer program works is that it
can’t render until it has a wireframe. Stan: Okay. Got it. Got it. Marshall: It needs something to put the light
onto. Stan: The structure. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Learn the structure then shade. Use value to reveal the structure that you
have already figured out linearly. I got you now. Marshall: Okay. Hey, Stan? Stan: Yeah. Marshall: What’s your thang? Stan: I am not done with it yet but Melissa
and I were what have been watching Chernobyl. I love it. Marshall: I have heard it’s good. Stan: It’s really good. Yeah, Brandon – Brandon: I have binge watched it with a
friend – Stan: How many days did it take you? Brandon: It was one day. Stan: What! You did the whole thing in one day? Brandon: We couldn’t stop watching it. Stan: Oh, man. That’s hilarious. Brandon: It’s awesome. Stan: Yeah. Melissa and I can only do one episode a day
so. But yeah, I would – I would binge watch that. It’s great. Marshall: How far are you into it? Stan: We are over halfway. It’s fun to think that when this happened
I was negative two months old. Sean: You might be radiated. Stan: My mom was seven months pregnant and
we were in Ukraine. Marshall: Whoa. You were close enough for – Wow! Stan: Yeah. And it’s even more fun to think about – I
mean none of this is fun. Really a tragic actually. But like to think that people in like Germany
were affected. Like people really far away were affected
and we were in the same country. And like the wind – the way the wind took
all the radiation. It went north and south. Oh, not north. Sorry. It went like north and east and west but it
didn’t go south which is where we were. And so we actually didn’t really get affected
by it. We were in Edessa. Marshall: Wow! Stan: Yeah. So, we got extremely lucky because I mean,
millions of people have diseases because of it. Like a lot higher chance of getting cancer,
nervous system diseases because of this thing. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Yeah. It’s crazy. Marshall: I am glad you are here. I am glad you are in good health. I am glad you made it. Stan: Thanks. That’s my thang. But yeah, the show is really good even if
you are not Ukrainian. Marshall: Yeah. I would like to see it at some point. Stan: You should. That’s the one that I am like insisting on
for you. Marshall: Okay. Yeah, I will. Stan: You don’t like watching shows that were
made today but – Marshall: I am fine watching it later when
going to be around. Stan: Marshall, you are old. You can’t wait much longer. Marshall: I have got at least another, well,
I couldn’t – can’t say. Not something you can predict. But I am not in a hurry because it’s happening
now it’s not that important to me. But I know that it’s quality and that’s why
I’ll get to it. Stan: So what’s your thang? Marshall: Hey, I want to tell you what my
thang is. When I was fifteen years old, a movie came
out called Paper Moon that I saw at the movie theater and I enjoyed it so much at the age
of fifteen that I went back to see it again. And then I don’t remember that it ever came
out on VHS. The 70s there was no VHS. And it finally came out on DVD when I was
45 years old. I saw it on DVD and I wondered whether it
would hold up as well as I remembered it and it held up so well. Stan: Really? Marshall: I have seen this movie thirty times. Stan: What’s it called? Paper Moon? Marshall: Paper Moon. Stan: Let me see. Marshall: And it’s – there’s a number of good
movies with kid protagonists. Oh, over the last two years, 2017, ‘The Florida
Project’. Do not miss The Florida Project if you want
to see one of the most amazing performances of a child, an eight-year-old, seven or eight-year-old
protagonist. But Paper Moon, Tatum O’Neal played an eight-year-old
protagonist. She won an Academy Award for it. It was the youngest that anybody had won an
Academy Award. And I got to show it to my son when he was
15 and he also responded too. But it’s been one of the most enjoyable and
repeatable films. Interestingly shot in black and white in the
70s. But Peter Bogdanovich had just shot a movie
with Barbra Streisand and Ryan O’Neal called ‘What’s Up Doc?’ that was such a hit that
the studio allowed him to do what he hoped to do which is shoot it in black and white. It looks like it’s shot in the ’30s. I don’t want to tell you anything more about
it. You can find out more about it if you liked
it. And if you do like it, Peter Bogdanovich has
a commentary track on it where he talks about how he made the choices, what lenses he chose,
how the exposure and all that kind of. It was really insightful stuff from a filmmaker
on how to make a good film. Stan: Nice. Marshall: He’s one of those rare filmmakers
that was a film reviewer. He was an expert on film before he actually
made one which rarely happens but he did it and did it well. And I feel like that’s is his high-water mark
as a filmmaker. But I really recommend Paper Moon. I think you will like it. Stan: Cool. Alright, guys. Leave a comment in the – Marshall: Hey, I got a better idea. Leave us a five star review. [Clapping] Wow! Did I finally succeed? Sean: You got the energy. Stan: Yeah, you did it. Marshall: What was missing? Stan: You didn’t tell them where. Marshall: Pardon? Stan: iTunes. They do it on iTunes. Marshall: Okay. Yeah. I’ll do that. I’ll try that next time. Sean: Leave a five star review on YouTube. Stan: Yeah. Speaker 1: And putting up vote on iTunes. Stan: Yeah. Sean: And be sure to subscribe on Reddit. Stan: Write a review on Yelp. Marshall: Okay. How about the comments on this one? Stan: The comments I think is an obvious one. If you are a parent and an artist, give some
advice. I think that is the most useful one. Marshall: Yeah. Stan: Right? Marshall: Yes. Being realistic about it some kind of hope
and encouragement because there is nothing harder. I don’t know that there’s anything harder
than parenthood. There are things harder but it just universally
speaking, it’s just the challenge of life. And so many people feel like I need encouragement. If you’ve got anything to say that is actually
helpful. I don’t know that what we said was that helpful. I hope it was. Stan: Yeah. I don’t think we solve anyone’s problems. Marshall: No. No. But we talked about it. Stan: We talked about it. Sean: You are bringing awareness to the
problem. Stan: The problem? Sean: Yeah, the problem of children. Stan: Oh, Jesus. I don’t know if it’s – Marshall: I hope for you to have community,
I hope for you to have people that when you look back on that you have bonding and fond
affection for people who helped you through it. As well as your kids. Stan: And I want to remind people that my
child was planned and Marshall’s was celebrated. [laughter] I am just joking. We might cut that out. Marshall: My son was planned. Stan: Okay, good. Marshall: I refuse to accept this abuse any
longer. Podcast over! Stan: Okay. [chuckle]

100 thoughts on “Advice for Artists with Kids – Draftsmen S1E23”

  1. I'm a stay at home mom and artist with both a 2 and 4 year old and this video was like a conversation I have wanted to have with someone for 4 years. Thank you both, it was indeed comforting.

  2. I'm a mum of 2 children aged 8 and 11. I have my own business and a part time job and do volunteer work. I stopped doing my art while my kids were young and I became very unhappy, which also made me a negative parent. 3 years ago I began painting again in the evening when the kids went to bed, I am so much happier which reflects in everything I do, including parenting. I now choose not to do things like watch movies or say no to some social events to make the time for my passion. I carry a sketchbook wherever I go, kids sports events, waiting to pick up the kids after school… whenever I can get a few minutes to draw. Don't stop doing your art or passion… even if its a few minutes a day.

  3. I love these guys, but I have to say Stans outlook on energy after a day of parenting is subjective. It all about mindset. I have 2 kids I watch my kids at night after a 9-10 hr day at work. I put them to bed and come down and work for enough 3-4 hours at night. You need to set goals and find ways to accomplish them. If you want get the most out of being a parent and and artist isolate the 2. When I am in dad mode I turn off my artist/ art director mind and turn on my dad mind(not easy but vital). Kids know when your mind is elsewhere and they will make your job as a parent waaaay harder if you are not locked in on them. That can be very stressful, focus your energy on them and giving them isolated quality time and it will rejuvinate you. When the kids crash I turn my artist mindset mind on and focus on that. I find I get a second wind by doing this because my kids break me from the stress and focus of work for 4 hours then my the time I come back to work at 930 till 130 I hit another creative period because I have had time to rest my creativity or flex it in a totally different way. The hard thing that most artist, including myself, have to deal with is turn off the artist side of myself. That said… I would strongly advise artist to not get married until they get their fundamentals down. I waited till I was 30. It was the best choice I could have made for myself, but that too is subjective.

  4. This goes against the current narratives that you can have it all. That said, a lot of it depends on various factors:
    1-Internal drive (some can make time and energy even after a long day)
    I find this one the hardest when I am tired.
    2-External pressures (a spouse that supports and allows you the time instead of trying to take that time over.)
    All I can say is good luck and I hope you have this.
    3-Your ability to set priorities (just let some things slip so you can do the art and family things.)
    This one can be learned or adopted. Does your bathroom really need daily wipedowns? Maybe meet friends or go out less. What are you willing to give up or delay for your art?

    I do have some trouble with the above, but I keep trying.

  5. This is a great topic. Here are my thoughts. You kind of have to expect that for a while you will not have a lot of time for it, certainly not as much time as you're used to having.. You have to tap family members to help out. The old expression "Sleep when the baby sleeps" becomes "Paint when the baby sleeps." Coffee. Have a plan for what you're going to do when you can squeeze in some art time so that you are productive instead of sitting in front of a blank canvas or sketch book and not ready to create. And just know that eventually kids grow up, be there for them when they're young, because art will be there waiting for you when they get older and you have all the time in the world for it again.

  6. On the basis of the question posed about what to practice for the gentleman that loves realism and stylized art, but does not know which one to persue more so. My art tends to be in between realistic and stylized pieces, I would recommend practicing realism and anatomy more because it will be a better base to work off of and tends to be much more difficult to perfect.
    Some of my work:
    varisfinndesign.com

  7. Hey Stan still waiting for both of you on your thoughts about the Dangers of Social Media to artists such as depression and anxiety :). Great talk thou

  8. Finding time is nearly impossible, really, with the little ones. But you have to make the time, and sometimes you have to change your perspective on how you do art, because you can't always draw or paint when you feel inspired. So sometimes you have to make it 'work' by setting time aside and putting down other things, and really focus on your task. Also: making hay while the sun shines. The sun shines when the baby is having a nap… But if I get up early to paint, often the baby comes out to see what I am doing. Then I have to put it all away. What I do now, is focus on smaller pieces, things that I can finish more quickly.

  9. I’m not a parent, and my mom wasn’t a professional artist but she was/is an artist. I remember she used to do drawings for us, where we would decide what she should draw and she’d do an ink drawing of that thing. There’s a housefly with a bad cold that I remember fondly 😀 We spent hours on that game, just coming up with stuff and then watching her draw.

  10. Simple until they go to kindergarten you practice gesture and quick sketches. Then until they go to school you practice watercolor. Then when they go to high school you will have all the time in the world.

  11. I think people mistake "getting mileage" for just putting in 10000 hours of practice in and you be a master. Those two theories/assumptions do not take deliberate practice into account.

  12. my kid wakes up at 5 am – and he dont giva f,,, i do his maintanace rutine with him after that i go stright to my maintnace rutine … and i have no choose. I go to gym at 7 am , doing my project after feeding my kid ( he is less pain in the ass after that) i have time window like one hour to do so. After that my wife take baby and i go to work .. when i back – i do maintance – some few sketches and go sleep like 9-10 pm cuz fell like im back from mine work or smthing.

  13. I struggle with this balance, and also my 4 year old reminds me to play and make marks without fear. I got choked up when you were speaking about reading to children. I know I’m going to miss that one day. Thank you for this video. Thank you for the honesty and for sharing.

  14. Hope someone sees this but I remember one of the podcasts mentioning something about the military. Could anyone point me to the episode that mentions it?

  15. Great show, but somehow Stan has become so condescending, it's hard not to judge. His confidence comes across as dismissive of others' opinions. I used to admire his humbleness as an artist and teacher…

  16. Ooof "A child who is rejected by their parents has a better chance than a child who is constantly affirmed by their parent saying we support you and we love you but they don't" OUCH BIG OUCH oof owie oof oof oof owie I'm in this picture and I dont like it

  17. I had several times in my life were this was an issue. First I was in the military, I worked minimum of 14 hours and barely had time for anything. During that time I had to give up printmaking that was and still is my favorite medium because I lived in a boat and didn't have space to store the tools. The way I solved it was by keeping a small sketchbook and draw during free time at work 🤣 then wen l was out of the military I had to get used to my newborn child and my wife got pregnant! I was lucky enought I could provide to my family with my savings. The my wife went to work and I was the stay at home dad for two little girls. During this time I was the most productive, I learned to instantly switch from being creative to doing other things since I was at all times dealing with my art and my girls. Now my youngest son , and the last one! Just joined the family and am back at it again. I barely have time for my art again, witch is my main source of income for the last two years, but I know I can make it happend. My advise, be as organized as posible so when you are making art you make the most of your time. I usually do an hour of carving, an hour of practice on specific topics and an hour of shipping, printing, marketing, etc. Keep track of your time with a digital timer and remjg yourself that as long as you make time for those things you had a successful day.

    Ps keep up the amazing job with the podcast!!!!

  18. I am an artist and a mother of one kid who is now 6. Although very early in my career, I feel like I got the art vs looking after your kid down very well.
    My husband has a full time job so I was left to take care of the kid, work on art, look after the house, all that stuff.
    When your kid is under the age to go to school and you don't want to have other people taking care of your kid but you are still passionate about your art, it is difficult to balance it all.
    I used to watch my kid and do the house work during the day and then when my kid went to bed at 8, I would work on my art stuff until 11pm.
    I would even sketch while I was potty training him. Sounds so odd but it takes time for them to poop and they can sit on the toilet for ages so I would get 10-15 minutes in of anatomy studies.
    This resulted in my social life, time with husband and other hobbies becoming non-existent but I am a pretty content person when it comes to being alone so it didn't bother me.
    I knew that I would be able to catch up with all that stuff later on (which I did by creating a schedule)
    My mum would take him once a week and when she did, it would be like a kid on Christmas eve the night before,
    I was so excited and because I knew I had all day, but only one day, I would make the most of that day, really motivated and excited to work on art.

    When he got old enough to go to nursery (pre-schoool) it was only for 3 hours but it was what I needed.
    Being able to work on just art work for those three hours was mind blowing to me and very helpful.
    He started going to school for 6 hours a day 1 and a half years ago.
    I feel like my career is just now getting started even though I was working towards it for 5 years prior.
    So yes, it is difficult to find the time, and do it but if you do and work on it as much as you can, it will greatly benefit you.

    Squeeze in as much art time as you can while your kid is napping, with other family members, even eating and you will thank yourself later.
    Do not give up completely, try not to be too hard on yourself if you can't get some drawing in because you will find time eventually.
    If I can do it, you definitely can! (I am the laziest person I know but I still managed to do it)
    My kid used to like drawing so I would give him a sketchbook and draw with him.
    He is no longer in to drawing so I don't force him to do it. I just let him play with his cars or on a video game for a short while so that I can draw.

    There are always ways around it, there is always time, you just have to adjust your schedule to fit it in .
    Routine is another good thing to implement, I set up a routine for myself and my son to follow and we both work well with this.
    When it comes to the time where I draw, after we have done all the housework, homework, dinner, bath, my son says you work now, time for me to play. lol

  19. idk if anyone mentioned, but there is this guy (Thomas Romain) who is also a youtuber. He re-design his two sons drawings in his channel and talk through his process.

  20. Stan is a great youtube teacher…but entirely unrelatable and way too immature (I'm not against immaturity; just within the context of a wise person being present it becomes unbearable). Thank God Marshall's here

  21. hi stan and marshal i have a question..
    first of all english is not my native languange and my english is pretty bad but i hope you understand and i hope i dont sound impolite.
    so im a 21 years old college student and aspiring artist from indonesia. i am majoring in animation and my college is one of the best in indonesia that teaches art and animation but the truth is its really" a bad institution, they teaches color theory but only barely scratch the surface and they dont teach anatomy at all. so i am studying anatomy from the anatomy of the human body course from proko.com. i believe 100% that there are no legit art schools that teaches art fundamentals in indonesia.
    so right now i feel like i mostly waste my time on searching the right source to study on the web. while other people my age that also pursuing art on a legit art schools, can progress faster because they dont have to waste their time to search for knowledge because its already given to them. so i feel like i progress really slowly from all that searching.
    so my question is..
    how do i find the best source of art knowledge from the web (courses) like color theory, drappery, anatomy, composition that are available right know so i can progress faster and able to compete with the other artists my age that are already so much more knowledgeable?
    and from my story could you give me advices ?
    thank you!!

  22. I needed this. It's hard to explain to people how having children and being an artist is extremely challenging. There are ways to make it work. But everyone's situation is unique. I've had set backs because my son won't be sidelined. But I've had to completely change my approach and how to make income due to having a child. Patience and adaptation is key but there's no cookie cutter way.

  23. I know plenty of Women artists and entrepreneurs that are successful and are out here kicking ass and taking names. Is it hard to be a parent hell yeah especially if you’re a single parent like me but hello it all balls down to how bad do you want it? Then you need to ask yourself what are the steps I need to take to get it with these children? I have noticed that people that don’t have children have so much more time and energy to get a lot more done so they can go further faster some of them if they’re motivated but it doesn’t mean your life is over if you have children.

    1. Make a plan , How hard are you willing to work?
    2. Make a schedule it will save your life
    3. Hire some help or get family members and friends to help you with raising the child
    4. Stick to the schedule carve out at least one day a week where you spend a day of just relaxing with the children or your spouse
    5. Try to get at least six hours of sleep maybe lol 😂
    7. Practice practice practice as much as you can and get your work out there to whoever will see it if you have to strap the kids on your back and get it done.
    8. Network network network find other parent entrepreneurs and artist just like you they will help you.
    9. Get ready cause you’re in for a bumpy ride 😀👋💖💖💖
    Great show Proko and Marshall 🔥

  24. This is so humbling and reassuring. As someone who has had a child, I naively didn’t expect my time to be so limited and my art has suffered because of it… 😩 Thank you for talking about this

  25. The Proko condensed advice to a single-parent wanna-be creative: "Your work won't be on the most-wanted list, but your child will be.” Work/life balance! 👍🏻

  26. I've loved every episode, and the advice provided usually draws deeply on personal anecdote and well-researched science. I was a bit disappointed this time with the advice to the gentleman who could not make a clear decision between two styles of art he could pursue. A creative combination was great advice, I think, but there was a certain dismissive attitude re "growing up", and that others can't choose for you. I think this is far more common than they admit. Looking at it from the flip side, there are those people who always knew what they wanted to be. My closest friend always wanted to be an engineer, and it was obvious from his early childhood that he would be. People who have a passion are so lucky! I would have expected at least a couple of book references, such as "Passion and Purpose" or "Find Your Passion", and maybe something on the brain science of decision-making. How does the brain actually make decisions? Is there an analytical process you can use to help you break a mental deadlock? And as for my friend… he didn’t have to "make a choice", or "be a grown-up", his passion just grew like a weed. For some the siren call comes from one direction… for others it comes from all sides at once.

  27. I'm a 15 year old who loves art and drawing and i love listening to this podcast while drawing and practicing. You two are amazing and you're great teachers. 🙂

  28. I find myself that I struggle with finding time to work on art just by being in a relationship. We are hoping to have kids within the next year or so, so I'm not sure if I will ever improve my art ever again at this point haha.
    Its been a struggle, and I'm sure my partner would be open to me spending more time on myself and my art, but I value spending time with him so much its hard to not want to spend every waking hour with him and experience things with him.
    This has been my personal struggle of wanting to improve my art but also wanting a fulfilling family life along with a career. In the end I will probably always choose family over my art and I hope to come to terms with this eventually!

    I think something that is also holding me back from accepting it is everyone's aversion to kids in my industry (or so it seems). I haven't been able to find many women I work with who like, let alone, want kids and this makes me feel very alienated and alone and like I am doing something wrong by wanting a family instead of working every night and day on my art. (I totally support their decisions of course!) This could just be me overly fretting about it but its definitely been a contributor to my dissatisfaction with my art.

  29. Alan Parsons got Destroyed by being a nice parent! what a sad story. check his albums before kids and after his kid grew up and wanted to influence his daddy's next music album.
    just like M.Night Shyamalan doing Lady in water.
    but these are just examples from one side of the story,

  30. I am a mother and an artist. It CAN be done. I am not famous by any means but I get by. I learned WHILE I had babies.

    A couple years ago when i was starting out i did a interview about what it looked like to be a full time mom and a learning artist.

    https://cultivatecreativity.blog/art-confidence-and-pursuing-ones-dreams-a-conversation-with-janie-cosby/

    That was a couple years ago and the art examples on the blog are embarrassing for me…but I'm still going strong except NOW I teach art…so my schedule looks a bit different. It CAN be done ladies. It's hard but if you have the right mindset you can do ANYTHING because being a mom gives you tools that you didn't have prior to being a mom. Tools that you can use for any other dream you have. <3

    You can check out my current t art on my Instagram @mommydraws and feel free to send me a DM about how I make it work as a full time parent and art student and teacher.

  31. I don't know, in my experience kids and art can go together fairly well.

    I'm 46, I work a completely non-art related day job (journalism), I have two small kids (1 and 5 years old) a partner who also works full time and I still find plenty of time for art. I started from (almost) zero about two years ago and while I am by no means on any sort of professional level yet (or even halfway there) I have been able to learn A TON (especially fundamentals). As someone else said, it's importand to stay mobile and flexible. I find lots of time in the evenings, I find time during work breaks and sometimes I even manage to draw WITH the kids. Sometimes I get prompts for line drawings from my daughter and she gets to color the drawing afterwards 🙂

    So really, if you're properly motivated you CAN find the time and energy. I am fully determined to take my art to a professional level. Maybe (probably) it will take a year or two more than it would have without kids, but I have no doubt I'll get there.

  32. Both you guys are out of this world! I love the content along with the speed intervieuws you give to other artists at comic con 🙂 thanks!

  33. time managment , budgeting, and including your children in your art, teaching them along the way and allowing them to see your passin letting them know that they will find thier own passion just as you have , weteher it be art, music sports, or something else. I have 3 kids and an in home studio. my kids have proven to be inspiring many times such as writing childrens books and illustrating, learning how to teach children of all ages. As they get older they share their intrests with you and you begin to learn more. Without my kids I may be working for a lot more money somewhere, but I would definatly not be as happy as I am now. I had a painting that my 5 yerar old painted a pig swath of yellow over the top of. yeah I was mad at first, but I truned it into a better image because of it and now its known as the first collaberation <3 I support my teenagers with their interest and they supoort mine by giving me my studio time . it's been GREAT ! Drawing like speaking is a natural human response I truly believe that watching my kids draw and giving them the tools to do so, has inturn made parenting easier as I could decifer things they might be feeling thru their drawings when they were to young to really communicate such feelings.

  34. Just wanted to jump in and ask about "It takes 6 people to raise a child". First time I hear this. Growing up most of my peers were regularly watched by grandparents and often spent weekends with them and so on. My parents never had that luxury even if they wanted it, it was just them raising me and my brother (twins) and they have expressed that it was incredibly tough (both work 9-5 too) but in the end my mom mentioned that she is glad that they got to be consistent in the way we were raised. They would agree on certain rules, guides for us and make sure they were following them. While a lot of people around us seemed to have trouble with that since the kids would get confused by the diffrent rules, standarts with diffrent guardians.
    Just wanted to mention, ofcourse you can solve this with communication between the people watching the kid but it seems to be much easier said than done. So there are pros to the tougher situations where the parents are on their own.

  35. Speaking of artist moms, I was wondering if you'd ever make a podcast dedicated to female artists? Not specifically the focus of being a woman as an artist / in the art industry (no offense I don't think 2 men can… Feel that?) more like just a little spotlight on artists who happen to be women? 🙂 im curious because I barely know non contemporary female artists.

  36. Im commenting this when they're trying to come up with artists with kids.
    If they dont think about Kim Jung Gi im getting triggered

  37. OMG I was so happy to hear the Marshall loves children's books even as an adult! I love children's books so much! When I worked as a teacher's assistant, when no one was looking, I'd browse the kid's books and look at some of them because of how beautifully illustrated some of them were.

  38. I am a parent of two children just barely a year apart in age, they are 18 and 19 now. My youngest is on the spectrum and I can tell you it's hard but I continue as best as I can. I'm assuming that by success you mean that one is making a living solely from their art because I do believe that there is more than enough time to develop technical skills even when you are working a 9 to 5. You just have to be disciplined with the time that you have. I have worked a 9 to 5, I also taught art classes and have gotten illustration work occasionally, but not enough to make a living from it. While I keep pushing myself to get better, using up what time I can daily I have not done so well at building a career out of it. I think that has more to do with being a business person and not an artist. I have studied art at the High School of Art and Design, went to Parsons School of Design and took classes at the Art Students League. I continue to work at improving as an artist but I understand very little about the business side of things. So I really don't think that I can hang not being successful career wise on my children (both of whom I have a great relationship with). On the one hand I believe that I have continued to develop as far as my skills are concerned ( I can always get better and I strive for that ), I keep to a daily schedule practicing and continuing to develop my skills, on the other hand I have yet to succeed at making a living from it but I think that has more to do with a lack of knowledge and skills on the business end than having children.

  39. What was the title of the Great Courses course that Marshall referenced? Was hoping to find it in the video description

  40. Actually Marshall, van gogh said that knowing how to draw first is most important. He says that "drawing is the root of everything and the time spent on it is all profit"

  41. My husband had a girl from his first marriage. We wanted a boy and it was a girl. The next pregnancy ended up being twin girls. Having a house full of Girls we decided not to try again. lol We got a boy Cavalier King Charles spaniel instead.

  42. Marshalls stories about reading to his child and love for childrens books hit close to home and memories of my mother. You're a kind man Marshall.

  43. It's not easy for mothers in India to take care of a child (also husband sometimes), looking after the households too. But then we have to give up that resting time (half n hour) during the day or wake up early and practice with a good fresh mind. Search for that open window where one can doddle atleast . Well this takes like 3 years, till the child is in school and IF you get the peace of mind then.
    For me, I started art when I was 2 months pregnant, it's 14 years now and still searching for open Windows 😉

  44. Artemisia Gentileschi had a child AND a career after the renaissance. An example of a mother/single parent. She's amazing. Look her up.

  45. I am a dad of two young children, currently switching from one job to (art)teaching jobs. This means i can’t work freelance at the time. I have accepted the fact that i’m not gonne do big projects, instead i am focussed on maintaining my draftsmanship. I do this by sketchbooking daily (every other day tbh). I cant stress enough the importance of sketchbooking. I am storing ideas for graphic novels or zines in them like it’s a fridge. I am keeping a momentum going and more or less maintaining my craft. Even if its only 15 minutes a day it will expose what you need too work on. I can easily find half an hour a day even though i have two teaching jobs and another 3 day job. I can squeese it in right before work or while im waiting somewhere or taking a bus or, you get the picture
    I have had a longer art hiatus before and it refreshes my take on professional work or changes my work for the better in the long run. As soon as I have got enough hours teaching I can allocate more time of my week to make art again. As my son is turning three i am already feeling the intensity ease up a little which makes it less tiresome being a commited parrent.
    I purposely shelved the art career and worked on switching the day job to one that better suits me and pays better so i can buy more time. Plus the teaching is helping me advance aswell as it is keeping me motivated. I love it when i inspire students and when they inspire me.

  46. To the 2nd voicemail. Of realistic and stylised work. I think finding a way to combine those might be the best thing you can do. What I mean is : good example of this would be artist you can find on instagram under name la__aura. It could actually become your signature look too

  47. Well, I had 3 kids while working as an artist. The kids went to public kindergarden, during the day, and I kept a almost normal work schedule. Obviously a bit more tired from time to time. Don't you have kindergardens in the US?

  48. Intro always sounds like Draftsmen shoes! 😂 I'm a full time working dad with a beautiful wife and no it doesn't get easier as they get older. They have clubs to go to, school uniforms and trips etc to pay for. Time and money always taken up, as it should be! Just gotta get the art in as and when you can. Coffee coffee coffee!

  49. Definitely a challenge, as a mother of two I painted when the kids were sleeping, unfortunately after the second child was born Art took a back burner till I found a job as an artist for a cottage business creating household kitchen items. I then changed to freelance plus working part time plus parenting. This worked well while the kids were in school, so much time needs to be devoted to the kids. I didn’t find the time I really wanted to spend on my craft until the kids were older. Now I am retired from a full time job working on my freelance dream.

  50. Im really looking forward to meet our first in february.
    But must admit i am a bit nerveous
    . I know ill manage it, but all these kinda podcasts help 😀
    Thank you guys for sharing a fun podcast about the theme.

  51. Eleesa just became a mom and she brought her baby on cons proko has another video were he ask her questions while she has it on her arms 😊. She is a really good artist, with a big career and also a mother.

  52. Im a mom of 4, ages 7 and under. Im a self taught artist with a lot of learning to do, and i homeschool. Since my eldest was born I started doing just a few commissions per year.

    I draw my kids while they play, do figure studies from video so that i can watch them while i draw, and my focussed study (perspective currently) and polished work is saved for when theyre asleep. I paint the sunrise digitally in the mornings when i can steal a few minutes during breakfast. My eldest likes when I make comics, he comes up with the stories, but i have to be cautious to not hurt his confidence, so i try to keep most things gestural or abstract around him.

    The hardest part is that I dont get to just obsess like I used to, getting lost in creative thoughts or deeply observing the things that captivate me through my day that I want to capture on paper. But it also is forcing me to manage my time better, to commit things to memory so that I can jot them down when i have the chance. When i do polished work I lose a lot of sleep. When you have 4 young kids no one wants to babysit 😆 so theres no scheduled time for me to work during the day, ever. I do hope I can make a career out of my art someday.

  53. This has been the topic Ive always wanted to see. For years it has been a challenge for me, as a 3d artist, 2d artist and a stay at home mom. It is indeed, very hard, very confusing and frustrating. But at one point you will get tired of self pity and just push yourself. I mean, life will always get in the way and we cant have it all. Family is precious, as well as your art. Im in the process of still juggling everything. Because of a lot of reasons i have to do it all.., and ive accepted it is a very slow process, unless I focus on just one thing. But indeed, drawing and painting is my ultimate passion.
    Set goals, say no to playdates (most of the time), no social life, turn off social media… i think that is my advice for all moms who are struggling with the situation.

  54. The Frouds, Brian and Wendy are excellent examples of famous artists with a family. Alan Lee, Arthur Rackham, John Everett Millais… There are plenty. Maybe not as many young artists, but I think that is a generational shift, not necessarily just in the art world.

  55. I think the most difficult thing about being an artist and parent isn't not finding time to paint, but finding time for networking. Going to scheduled events that may conflict with your available time is much more difficult than carving out a few hours at home or in the studio for painting.

    I also think that it's really difficult to start formal education after having a child. Better art schools tend to be in areas with higher cost of living. Unless you have a spouse or significant other that can support the entire household on their income alone, it's just insane trying to make it work.

  56. I was in reversed situation. I was the kid and my dad the artist. He forced me to do art couse I was very talented and the final result? I've hated paint, drawing and sculpting. Trashed 30 years of my artistic life. Now I'm trying to come back and painting couse I've fixed my conflict with my father… So don't force your child to draw if they don't want

  57. Hey guys!
    I couldnt relate more with this week's topic!
    I just became a father!
    As a 35yo that started studying drawing only 4 years ago (also with a not art related job that I hope some day will escape from to became full time artist) I have to say that the lack of time makes whatever little time I find for practice much more precious which in the end makes for a more meaningfull concious studying time. Of course Its still super early to say how everything will play out but for now I try to stay positive!
    Keep up with those great podcasts guys! Really means a lot!

  58. I'm a single dad raising two daughters that works a demanding full-time job while trying to maintain a home (yeah, it's messy lol). I've found that I have more time for art than I thought but it's going to require me to cut out time-wasting things….like watching youtube videos, browsing the web, etc. So easy to waste time online. At least I can listen to this podcast while doing other things. 🙂

  59. There’s a Ukrainian saying, (told me by an elderly Ukrainian friend years ago) “every fool wants a copy of himself”

  60. Guys, the unfortunate fact (nannies notwithstanding) , is that anyone who has the time to discuss art when you have kids, is not a primary caregiver. Which is why every successful artist I have ever known married a non-artist. Proko nailed it when he said someone’s career will suffer (die, actually) when there are kids. A woman who wants to do art can’t have kids, end of. Combine this with how very very few artists of any sex, become “successful” it’s just a total Win/Win… I’m aware this may not be helpful or optimistic, sorry. Any career that requires obsessive devotion means hard choices, or enough capital to get home help.

  61. The bare feet are back!! I'll preface this by saying that I have eleven children–(no twins, one wife). I think the reason that you struggled to answer this comes down to there being too many variables in the equation as stated. But because this topic is so widely applicable, it merits probably its own series of podcasts, each focusing on a narrow set of constraints. Perhaps some of these could be addressed to the youth, especially those who have "art-resistant" (i.e. "not a real job") or otherwise non-supportive parents.

    Some constraints to specify might include: the season of life, both for the parent and the child, juxtaposed with the season of the artistic endeavor or career. Other factors to consider could be personal work ethic, discretionary time, commitment, desire, financials (both present and projected), ability to focus, grit, quality of boundaries, ability to delay gratification, extended family support, and general life values. It's equally important to put some parameters on that slippery word "success".

    As a prerequisite, the adults should take great care to do the critical groundwork of getting clarity on one's vision, both for the art, each spouse, and the child(ren).

    A few practical thoughts: If you have or can cultivate the temperament and at appropriate seasons, do things in parallel–it's the single biggest thing that makes computers so powerful. For example, some artists can talk to others and create at the same time; others find it harder. As quite a young boy I spent many an evening hour or Saturday at my dad's office, not far from his drafting table. I'd draw; he'd draw–we'd talk some and listen to the clock radio. We both did quality work 🙂 I think of those times whenever I hear the song Baker Street, which was in heavy rotation back then.

    From the Bible:
    a) for the Jews, the most weighty part of all the Old Testament is the Torah (first 5 books), and the most weighty part of the Torah is Deuteronomy chapter 6, and the most weighty part of Deuteronomy chapter 6 is verses 5-7, where God is saying essentially to steep your children in His ways continually, at the same time you are going about the other routine aspects of life (i.e. do it in parallel).

    b) Proverbs 22:6–train your children, and train them well. The loving, early, and diligent investment of this hard work will pay dividends like nothing else!!

    c) Prune to bear much fruit (John 15:1-8) Recommended book: "Secrets of the Vine": Breaking Through to Abundance by Bruce Wilkinson

    Cultivate strong routines and systems so your children have more security about their relationship with you, and less anxiety if you are away working some. In a related tack, keep them off of electronics for as long as possible and as much as possible. Steve Jobs did it, and so did Bill Gates. Hmmm…

    Well-meaning parents often strive to make little Johnny or Suzie into the super-kid, with pre-pre K at the fancy private school, a hyper-scheduled life full of long sports seasons etc. If this path is followed, then yes, there will likely be no time for art in a meaningful way for the parent. In the classic Rush song "Entre Nous", genius drummer and author Neil Peart wrote "the spaces in between/ leave room/ for you and I to grow." I think that definitely applies to parents and children, for both of their personal interests and lives in general. Surprisingly, it is often more nurturing to give kids quality alone time, which is sadly missing today for most children; those long, precious, uninterrupted expanses of unstructured time where they are free to follow their natural desire to play, create, discover and dream. Likewise, both parents and adult artists need the same; often we just try to pack in too much!

    A great example of art in moderation is the singular icon himself and father of four, Frank Frazetta. In the book "Icon: A Retrospective by the Grand Master of Fantastic Art" I learned that he very much had interests outside of art and didn't care to spend an excessive amount of time at the drawing board/ easel. One could feel that he was too cavalier, or even ungrateful for his Ten Talents of Artness (clearly cultivated by practice, study, and application from a young age). Certainly, the art world would love to have double the Frazetta works to enjoy. However, I feel strongly that his having not only "a life", but a vibrant life with many hours spent away from the drawing board played no small part in his work having the vigor and "frankly", unmatched appeal that it does. Ironically, had he tried to devote more time to art, it may have actually diluted its quality.
    Moral for parent-artists: even without coming close to FF in artistic "success", this philosophy and approach can be applied by *you*.

    But perhaps the biggest key to success with both art and the children is– courage.

    Again, this was modeled so well by Frazetta, and is evident in how, time after time, he would extensively modify published paintings once he got them back. A close second success key is confidence. Not bravado, but real confidence: part faith, part preparation, part experience, part character.

    Finally, it's important is to not limit one's search for art "success" models to the art world. The highly renowned 18th-century preacher/author Johnathan Edwards and his excellent wife Sarah also had eleven children, and their accomplishments with both work and children were superb.

    For example, Mr. Edwards' seminal sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" sparked the First Great Awakening in colonial America and, some 250 years later, is still taught from today. On the parenting front, their descendants have had a disproportionately positive effect on American culture. Sarah's tireless devotion and hard work with and for the children was a constant. Despite sometimes crushing work responsibilities, Johnathan made a point to spend a focused hour each night with his children. Regardless of your religious views, the book about their lives called "Marriage to a Difficult Man: The Uncommon Union of Jonathan & Sarah Edwards" makes for fascinating reading; it would be hard not to come away from it both humbled and inspired, with many points of application.

  62. Can we please appreciate these awesome, humorous, well done and just wonderfulthumbnail pictures with the heads of Marshall and Proko? These are so hilarious, I'd love to hang each as posters in my apartment. :'D

  63. JK Rowling was a single parent with a young child when she wrote the first HP book. I know it's not art per say but it's still creativity.

  64. I havent read through the comment, but I have to mention J.K. Rowling. She wrote the first Harry Potter book during the years at home with her baby.
    Otherhand, i have a 1 year old. I can only work during his sleeping hours. (it's dominantly night time). thats about 4-5 effective hours from 8pm. I know, it is all the time i have for work, and that gives me extra motivation. Do it now, or it wont be done at all.
    In the begining i was exhausted, but you can get used to. It got built in my lifestile and became a habit. Although im not a famous artist and i'm not willing to sacrefice the time, i can spend with the kid either.

  65. The clownfish changes gender too. True story.
    I think Stan should allow Marshall to read books to Cooper.
    Actually, I'd like recordings of Marshall reading the books for myself. 🙂

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